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81
Wedge List / Re: Buick water pump on a TR8??
« Last post by Mark Elbers on November 19, 2017, 03:23:15 PM »
Herb,

I donbt have any part numbers that I can vouch for,  but since I started

this thread here is a summary of what Ibve learned:



My thought is to look for a 1973-87 Buick V6 long body pump because they

appear to fit,  are a newer design,  should pump more coolant at idle or rush

hour traffic situations and be easier  to find than a 1960bs part.  Either

the 3.8L (231CID) V6 or 4.1L (252CID) V6  units appear to be interchangeable.

Notably both buick donor engines are also larger capacity than the TR8 3.5

RV8,  so that is a good starting point.   They appear to measure approximately

4.5b from gasket to the pulley mounting face, whereas the TR8 pump measures

4.75b from the gasket to the front of the pulley.



Supporting rationale:



1. Regarding the AC versus Non AC and the angle of the intake hose from the

radiator:    http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Water-Pumps-BOP-215.htm   shows

clearly that the original  buick/olds  215 pumps point the intake hose more

horizontally, other sources suggest a more forward orientation as well. On the

TR8 configuration   that would interfer with the alternator bracket.  You also

wouldnbt be able to use these pumps to attach the engine mounted coolant

header tank on an EFI TR8 as they are missing the top accessory mount.    The

Buick 300 and later V6 pumps appear to angle the intake down more,  which

avoids the alternator bracket and they have the added accessory mount on top.

A number of MGV8 web pages indicated that the 1964 Buick 300 pump is the one

they prefer,  but the MGV8 also requires a much shorter pump in order to avoid

conflicts with the radiator.  TR8bs have more room up front.  I measured my

TR8 pump at 4.75b  from gasket to front face of the pulley.  (note subtract

the pulley thickness to get water pump front face dimension.)   All the pumps

shown, seem to have the necessary bypass holes and heater connections to match

the TR8 application.  Youbll note that the bottom two pictures in the link

above, both have the same preferred radiator hose intake configuration, but

the top views of each  shows they differ in shaft length.  So based on this

information, it still isnbt clear which pump to use.



2. We have some clues however.   In previous e-mails,  Wil Parris mentioned

that he used a Buick 231CID (3.8L) V6 pump,  and swapped out the pulley

mounts, using a press. This implies that both pumps have similar shaft lengths

and identical shaft diameters.  RL Skelton may have used a pump from a 1984

Buick Electra with V8 and made an 5/8b adapter to mount the TR8 pulley from

itbs front face.  Take away 1/16b - 1/8b for the pulley thickness and

the spacer required to mount the TR8 pulley using itbs rear face ,  is close

enough to 1/4b, which matches the Electra pump closely to the( approx.)

4.5b long Buick 231 long body pump.  In the early 1980bs, I believe the

Buick Electra was available with either the 350 V8 or the 4.1L (252 CID) V6.

Ibm making an assumption that both engines used the same pump during that

production period,  which is supported by the following:

3. According to the TA performance website

http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1536BHP  the only pump

they list for a 1973-87 Buick 231 or 252 is a long body unit (Approx.  4.5b

)  also specified for the 350 V8.  Note they list a separate short body pump

for '64-'70 V6 & 300-340-350, '66-'71 Jeep 225 & 350  and a medium body pump

for the 1971-72 350,  so presumably it is the same long body unit that matches

both  the Buick 231 and the 1973 & newer 350bs.

There are lots of options.

Notes on Pulleys:

1. No one seems to have identified an off the shelf OEM pulley that will match

any  Buick pump to the TR8,  which makes an adapter mandatory to match either

the TR8 Rover pulley or some mish mash of American OEM pulleys.  With this in

mind  the 1964-70 Buick V6 water pump, which is shorter, should also be

relatively plentiful and could also be made to work, but with a thicker

adapter.

2. I have yet to verify exact dimensions,  but Google has suggested that early

Buicks used a smaller bolt circle whereas the later pumps may have used the

standard Chevy small block 4 X 1.75b.  Ford also appears to have used the

1.75b bolt circle on their v-belt small block V8bs prior to the serpentine

systems going into service in the early 1980bs.  Some fords seem to have

shorter pulleys than the Chevy, which may help in some custom installations.



Like I said earlier, it is still probably wise to bring the old TR8 pump along

on any shopping expeditionb&.maybe the gasket too.



It may be time take a stroll through the local Pick & Pull with tape measure

in handb&



Regards



Mark





Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: R. L. Skelton

Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2017 2:35 PM

To: WFO Herb; Mark Elbers

Cc: WWWedge

Subject: Re:  Buick water pump on a TR8??



I don't have a part number for the pump I have. B I took my old one to the

store and they came up with this as a close match. B From a 1984 Buick

Electra

with V8????

By the way, my TR8 does not have A/C.



      From: WFO Herb <froggi60@gmail.com>

To: Mark Elbers <elbersm@telus.net>

Cc: WWWedge <tr8@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 8:46 PM

Subject: Re:  Buick water pump on a TR8??



Gentlemen,



Do you have part numbers for these (usable) water pumps?



Vary depending on A/C or not?

--

.

Archives provided courtesy  http://www.triumphwedgeowners.org

--

.

Archives provided courtesy  http://www.triumphwedgeowners.org
82
Wedge List / TR8 oil drain plug thread size
« Last post by Darrell Walker on November 18, 2017, 09:51:10 PM »
Does anyone know the thread size of the TR8 oil drain plug?  The ROM says

1/2-20, but thatbs wrong.  Measuring the threads, Ibm getting something

between 3/4 and 7/8, but I donbt have any bolts or nuts in that size to know

what it is.  Ibd like to install a magnetic plug.



Thanks,

--

.

Archives provided courtesy  http://www.triumphwedgeowners.org
83
Wedge List / Re: Buick water pump on a TR8??
« Last post by "R. L. Skelton" on November 18, 2017, 05:36:30 PM »
I don't have a part number for the pump I have. B I took my old one to the

store and they came up with this as a close match. B From a 1984 Buick Electra

with V8????

By the way, my TR8 does not have A/C.



      From: WFO Herb <froggi60@gmail.com>

 To: Mark Elbers <elbersm@telus.net>

Cc: WWWedge <tr8@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>

 Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 8:46 PM

 Subject: Re:  Buick water pump on a TR8??



Gentlemen,



Do you have part numbers for these (usable) water pumps?



Vary depending on A/C or not?

--

.

Archives provided courtesy  http://www.triumphwedgeowners.org
84
Wedge List / Re: Penzoil Fluid in TR4-6 Transmissions?
« Last post by Dave on November 18, 2017, 08:46:39 AM »
I hadn't heard about ATF in TR6 boxes but the factory recommended ATF in the 5-speed TR7/8 boxes.



I use Redline MTL in my TR6 box w/ J-type and I am pretty happy with it but I am interested in trying the MT90.  



Dave
85
Wedge List / Re: Penzoil Fluid in TR4-6 Transmissions?
« Last post by Pat Ledford on November 18, 2017, 08:03:03 AM »
Wayne:



I ran ND 30wt in my TR6 with the J O/D.  The recommended wt by John at

Quantum.  Our local club O/D expert uses MT-90.  The 30 wt worked fine but

I was tempted to try the Pennzoil. Somewhere I read that there was a

service bulletin that called for Automatic Transmission fluid in the O/D

boxes.



*Patrick *



*1957 TR-3 TS20462LO*



*1980 TR-8 TPVDV8AT209637*





* Western Pennsylvania Triumph AssociationNorth Coast Triumph Association*



*TWOA*
86
Wedge List / Re: Buick water pump on a TR8??
« Last post by Dave on November 18, 2017, 07:48:06 AM »
Or better yet, model and year of the car.  As we all know, most counter guys can't find a part without the make, model and year.



Dave
87
Wedge List / Re: Penzoil Fluid in TR4-6 Transmissions?
« Last post by Wayne@Last-Chance-Garage.com on November 18, 2017, 12:00:57 AM »
No overdrive, and I assume it has the recommended 90 wright gear oil.



Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

  Original Message  

From: Tush

Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 11:46 PM

To: Wayne@Last-Chance-Garage.com

Cc: WWWedge

Subject: Re:  Penzoil Fluid in TR4-6 Transmissions?



Does your TR6 have overdrive? Do you know what type of oil is in it

currently?



Cheers

Tush



Sent from Dave's IPad







>
88
Wedge List / Re: Penzoil Fluid in TR4-6 Transmissions?
« Last post by Tush on November 17, 2017, 11:46:47 PM »
Does your TR6 have overdrive?  Do you know what type of oil is in it

currently?



Cheers

Tush



Sent from Dave's IPad







>
89
Wedge List / Penzoil Fluid in TR4-6 Transmissions?
« Last post by Wayne@Last-Chance-Garage.com on November 17, 2017, 11:39:39 PM »
body { font-family: "Calibri","Slate Pro",sans-serif,"sans-serif";

color:#262626 } This is off topic, but has anyone used the GM/Penzoil

synchromesh transmission we like so much in our 5 speed gearboxesb in

the 4 speeds used in the TR4-6, Stag, etc?

bIf so, what was your experience with it. I'm working on a TR6 and will

be changing the gearbox oil. I'm wondering if going to a lighter fluid

will result in easier shifting.

Thanks,

Sent&nbsp ;from&nbsp;my&nbsp;BlackBerry&nbsp;10&nbsp;smartphone.

--

.

Archives provided courtesy  http://www.triumphwedgeowners.org
90
Wedge List / Re: Buick water pump on a TR8??
« Last post by WFO Herb on November 17, 2017, 09:47:32 PM »
Gentlemen,



Do you have part numbers for these (usable) water pumps?



Vary depending on A/C or not?
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